Da Bassment: Accion (Pt. 4)

NJS4E: How about DeVante? Mentoring & developing artists over years, experiencing disloyalty and then losing them to rivals and seeing them succeed without him must have been quite difficult to deal with, especially when it was his idea and one that he developed creatively. How did he deal with it all?

I think DeVante was hurt because they weren’t with him. But at the time he never let on with anything. He just wanted to forget the whole thing so much. I think he internalized it all and didn’t say much about it to us because he was still our mentor and he probably felt he had to appear strong for all of us so that we didn’t lose our momentum and possibly think of leaving him also. I’m sure that was playing on his mind too. I think he just stayed strong for the rest of us. He just never showed any weakness. I do think because he blocked it out and didn’t deal with it properly at the time, in the long run he suffered more from it though. I think he never got over the pain of going through that experience. I can only imagine it must have been a lot for anyone to accept easily. To have lost a lot of what he had pioneered musically as well as the relationships he had with people, and after he had shouldered a massive financial responsibility when he took Da Bassment under his wings…he had no return on that emotional and financial investment. I think after doing all that and going through the aftermath of it all, he never trusted anyone the same way again because not only was it damaging emotionally, but mentally he was always in great fear that it would happen to him again. And that’s why by the time the second wave of Bassment members came through he just wasn’t the same way with it.

NJS4E: That whole timeframe when people started leaving seems to coincide with the time when the public started hearing less of DeVante on the production and writing side with his own group and with other artists. There hasn’t been a Jodeci album since 1995 (Editor’s Note: this interview took place before their 2014 reunion album) and of course the public never did see any of Da Bassment material released through DeVante, either for the original Bassment artists and/or the second wave of artists.

I think after people started leaving, DeVante definitely lost a lot of motivation and that was the beginning of the end for the reasons I’ve already stated. It’s sorta like a basketball team that has a strong nucleus, that are prepped to be undefeated and win all these championships, but then slowly but surely some of your star players choose to be traded to another team. Quite naturally you’re going to be grateful for the other players that you have, but you also know that it’s going to be so much harder to create the same kind of momentum and maintain that. When the split happened it was a devastating blow to his ego, his confidence, his pride and his mindset in thinking that he still had something as great a value as the original team he had. The desire to make it work and the desire for it to be a priority just wasn’t there in both his head and his heart anymore. And that’s understandable because Da Bassment had already been riddled with so many difficulties, it would have been hard for anyone to accept, get over all the damage and then give it another chance with the equal dedication he had at the beginning.

I most definitely would have found it too difficult. Personally for me, when the new members came on board I’d have to agree the atmosphere wasn’t the same at all. There just wasn’t the same connection and there was always that internal jealousy. The newer artists were kinda jealous of the relationships that the original artists had with DeVante. DeVante himself was in a different place at that time, where the same compassion and affection just wasn’t there. Despite all that we still worked hard and recorded material but we didn’t manage to have any material released.

NJS4E: That would explain the Jodeci album as well as Da Bassment material being on hold for so long now.

Yeah, I mean, I think he had just become de-motivated and disillusioned by all his experiences that the energy was gone for that too. He wasn’t the same DeVante that stepped into the industry. The hungry and passionate young man that was excited about his career in music and had a lot to achieve. He’d already broken records and won awards, he’d reached his peak at the time and had been praised for his talent and his achievements, but when he was going to unleash Da Bassment he’d experienced the harsh reality of what the industry and people can be like. He was too young to be prepared for that and because he was so young he was inexperienced to even deal with it properly. And he had to climb up from that, when there were now higher goals to reach and bigger records to break, because he was DeVante Swing and he was one of the greatest producers in the industry and that’s what he’s always been known for.

That’s a lot of pressure on him. That’s a lot of pressure on anyone, let alone someone in the public eye. Someone who was an icon. I think he was going through a lot of things and needed some time to himself, before he could concentrate on putting out an LP for Jodeci or for Da Bassment. You have to remember he’s also the type of guy that would never release anything unless he felt it was over and beyond his own high expectations of what his music should be. What you and I deem as perfect is very different than DeVante’s view of perfect. He was driven by complete perfection. I think he needed time out to sort a lot out before he could reclaim his top spot again. I think he tried to do that with the second wave of Bassment artists too soon when his head and heart weren’t there yet and that’s probably why nothing was really released.

NJS4E: Can you tell me a bit more about the second wave of Bassment members?

It must have been around ‘96 when the new wave of Bassment artists came on board. I don’t remember all of them because by that point I was in doubts about whether I was going to continue with DeVante. But there was Black’n’wild who were from Rochester, Pretty Boy Floyd who was from NY, Protégé, Jah, LB and a set of Twins. In fact the last encounter I had with DeVante I distinctly remember those twins being there. It was in New York and the twins were in the studio with him when I saw him for the last time face to face.

NJS4E: So when did you actually start having doubts about your future with Da Bassment and when did you actually end up leaving DeVante yourself?

I started having concerns about my future with Da Bassment in 1996. I actually ended up coming back to Rochester but then DeVante offered me a contract and asked me to go and live with Dalvin in Long Island. So in ‘96 I went and stayed with Dalvin in Long Island travelling back and forth from California recording music with him, and also just trying to see where DeVante’s head was at in actually getting the music out there and mobilising what it is we had set in motion. My concerns just kept growing because I could see that DeVante was not in the right frame of mind to get the music out. He also had people in his corner like the newer Bassment artists that I didn’t trust. I’d already had minor run-ins with some of them because I think they were jealous of my relationship with DeVante. All of that just drove me to the point where I didn’t feel I could dedicate myself to it anymore and my mind was made up. Obviously I told Devante. It wasn’t a dramatic ending or anything. It was a conversation and we parted very amicably. That was the last time I physically saw him though. It was the beginning of 1997.

NJS4E: So did you ever talk to DeVante after that?

Yeah. He called me regularly to see how I was and ask me to come back after I left, but neither of us ever pursued it. But yeah we were cool with each other so we kept in touch over the phone but not in person again since I officially left Da Bassment.

NJS4E: What happened after that?

What ended up happening is that while I still rap and focus on my music, I became a Born Again Christian, which is just as big a passion for me now. And funny enough, it was DeVante that without realizing, changed me from an Atheist to a Christian. There was an incident that happened before I left the crew, between DeVante and the owner of Platinum Island (where we’d record music) who was an Atheist. This guy knew that DeVante was a preacher’s kid and he challenged DeVante theologically in a debate about religion and I kid you not, when we left the studio, DeVante had explained things so thoroughly it looked as if DeVante was a genius and the guy you’d expect to have the IQ of a genius was a dummy and the ignorant one, and me myself I wasn’t a professing Atheist but I was living like an Atheist, but he basically persuaded me as well. It was at that point that I’d made a decision in my heart that I wanted to learn about Jesus and the things of God. So when we left that room, I was still amazed by DeVante because my eyes too had opened to the idea of a higher being.

Once I came home after leaving the crew, over the course of time I’d enrolled into college, got my degree, I had an encounter with the Lord and had ended up giving my life to the Lord and becoming born again. And basically he called me one last time and I was excited so I told him about all that. And he said ‘Man that’s good. I’m happy for you.’ And I never ever heard from him again after that. He has crossed my mind all this time though. It’s not an out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing. Y’know if I knew how to get hold of him I would because I’d love to be in touch with him again and know he’s doing good. I still have a lot of love and respect for that guy and nothing has changed there.

NJS4E: It’s a real shame that Da Bassment broke up and it’s sad to hear just how it culminated in most of you losing touch with a man you still clearly love and respect. It must be a shame also to know that had it lasted with him you would have taken over the airwaves and dominated the charts as both a collective and as individual artists.

Yeah. If DeVante was involved musically you had a smash hit, it’s as simple as that. He was super-talented and what he developed with Da Bassment along with the raw talent contained within it, I have no doubt in my mind that the sum of all that would have turned the industry on its head. I think while it’s a shame that it wasn’t to be, I also believe it was divine intervention in favor of DeVante’s happiness and general wellbeing that prevented it from happening. The Lord works in mysterious ways and I think he saw DeVante and wanted to salvage a whole lot of good for him. By that I mean, if Da Bassment had done what it would have done in the industry, DeVante would have been moreso a victim to the game. He would have had to deal with even worse things that come with the fame and success. I think Da Bassment not coming out gave him the chance to make himself number one for once and take a well-earned break. I think he needed that to find himself so he could have the opportunity to come back and turn the industry on its head, when he was 100% good and ready. I say that because I know there’s still tremendous talent laying dormant in DeVante and there will be redemption for him- I’m sure there will be. I still believe although he has already been a pioneer in music and added so much value to the industry in general, there’s still so much more in him that he’s supposed to contribute to the entertainment industry. And I’m certain we’ll see that.

NJS4E: The industry has definitely missed out from his presence all these years. I think that’s the main reason why there’s been so much demand in hearing or seeing him back in action again- with both Jodeci & Da Bassment. I feel an interview like this is so important because it reminds people of DeVante’s talents and achievements and clears up what has been a very one-sided story about Da Bassment.

Yeah. It’s safe to say the situation hurt everybody, but I feel personally that no-one can blame DeVante solely, and in fact when everything is taken into consideration I feel that DeVante suffered the most. And I know and understand the feelings some of the Bassment members had towards him- that the bad outweighed the good and the finger pointed at him, but when you boil the bad and the good down to the facts, he really did put everything he had, including genuine love, into us. And in the end he suffered a tremendous loss spiritually, emotionally, mentally, figuratively and financially. Nobody else experienced something to that level. It’s sad that the love and respect we all had for him has been forgotten with the Bassment story in the past and that’s why I was so open to doing this, because this is really an objective point of view and a more truthful account of what it really was that was going on and because like you I’m hoping to see him back on form again, the way he deserves to be. And I say all of this because I know- I was there!

People spend too much time focusing on the negative, when the truth of it is that everybody makes mistakes and everybody learns from their mistakes as they grow. It’s just the majority of people aren’t in the public eye and whatever we all went through that was negative, just like with life, there were plenty of positives to match. And as I’ve said before, no one was to blame for the split and I’m sure the mistakes that were made and the errors of judgement in the past, everybody has learned from them as a result. The fact remains that there is appreciation for the collective even to this day because despite the trials and tribulations. What is most important is the collective: the amazing, beautiful, and talented people that were part of that and the vibe we had together when we created the music. It was nothing but a family thing, a lot of love and that and the music really bound us together. And that’s what everyone should remember and will remember.

NJS4E: Do you think there’ll ever be a Bassment reunion and if there was one would you get involved again?

If so I don’t believe it would be orchestrated by DeVante. I believe that it’s something that maybe the artists that made up the crew would collectively decide on. There’s a lot of us that have kept in touch with each other over the years or have lost touch and are now back on track especially after having to come to terms with Static’s passing, and for that reason I can see the artists bringing it together again. But I know that if I were a part of any type of reunion, my voice would clearly reflect the desire and the need to have DeVante be a part of it- because it really wouldn’t be a Bassment reunion without him. I’m sure most if not all of the Bassment artists would say the same too.

NJS4E: So talk to me about what you’re doing now with your music?

Well after Da Bassment and I’d finished my schooling, I still had a great passion for music. I started my own record label under my real name Tobias. Actually we (INF) put our first CD out in 1999, but we’re at a place now when more doors are opening and we’re anticipating great things with this project that we’re releasing this year. Our new album is called Breakin’ N Enterin and I truly feel it’s our best work to date.

NJS4E: Good to hear you’re still making use of your talent. The style reminds me of A Tribe Called Quest’s earlier work. It definitely has an old school feel to it. How do you feel about music right now?

That’s a loaded question Rashmi! I think what music should be about and what the purpose of music in life hasn’t changed. Music was always a form of expression that carried a message: whether it was to get you to dance, to get you married, to get you thinking about the world, etc. Fundamentally what we want to feel and take away from music hasn’t changed. However, once we hit the early millennium, the type of artistry (and I use that term very loosely because there’s very few real artists in the music industry anymore) and the music that is being produced by those artists right now, I don’t believe is fulfilling in the way it used to be. I don’t believe the people who are putting it out really understand music and the art of being a musician, whether you’re a singer, rapper or producer. You know how they say art imitates life, well sometimes I believe life also imitates art and I believe that distinction is not being made in the music industry anymore. So I believe the music that we’re experiencing now is only a microcosm of the mindset that a lot of humans have right now in this microwave age: they want it quick, they want it fast and it doesn’t matter if it tastes as good as it would if it were a full home-cooked lovingly prepared meal-they just want something.

And that’s what we’re getting: we’re getting anything. And nobody is in it anymore as a career- everybody just wants a hit, everybody just wants a successful ringtone nowadays, or just their 5 minutes of fame. The music game has just become saturated with that kind of music and there aren’t many people who are cut from the type of cloth that your Jodeci’s were. So what you get is a bunch of people producing mediocre material and the people not doing that – the people that should be excelling in the industry are the ones that aren’t. When you think about it, people don’t produce music that is innovative and creative anymore.

The musician element … the art of creating melody is virtually dead. People don’t lay vocals like vocals were laid in the ’80s and ’90s. Rap lyrics aren’t written often enough with the finesse and lyrical genius that existed back in the day. And everything on the radio just sounds exactly the same now. It’s strange because there have been so many technological advances and more resources available to all types of artists that you’d think that there should be more progression that what there has been, but instead of getting better it seems as if it’s getting worse.

NJS4E: That is exactly how I feel but I couldn’t have put my thoughts across better than that. I tend to listen to more music from back in the day than I do that’s current and I feel old complaining about the way music is now, when I’m only 29 years old!

Exactly. That’s what is so strange because in the grand scheme of things we’re still very young, but it’s just that we’ve had the privilege of experiencing something at a time when music was truly better. And I would go out on a limb and say that this generation that is coming up right now, they may refer to the music of their day, but it won’t be with the same conviction and with the same passion and the same truth when they say the music we had in our time was good!

A positive aspect I do want to express though, is that this interview is occurring about something and someone that pioneered a great form of music 18 years ago, and that proves to me that music is really starting to shift. People are just not satisfied with the superficial, people want substance. And I believe there are still remnants out there. People out there who are still authentic in their gifts and their talents who can bring about this paradigm shift in the industry. And that is definitely something I know without a shadow of a doubt that I will be a part of, along with the others.

NJS4E: Which is such a good thing to hear! Just a couple more questions which I’d like you to answer without thinking about them too much. What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you think about your memories of Da Bassment- your experience or perhaps a special event?

There were so many. DeVante. The vibes we had with each other. The music.The tour. It’s difficult to pick one experience because the whole thing together was one memorable experience. But I guess an occasion that comes to mind was having dinner with Mike Tyson. The first person Tyson came to see when he got out of prison was DeVante! He drove all the way to Rochester and took us all out to dinner at the most expensive fanciest restaurant – this was back when Missy and them were all still there. The bill must have been well over $2000 and he left a $300 tip. I remember that night really clearly because Tyson had just gotten out of jail and he drove for hours all that way to Rochester just to spend time with DeVante & us.

NJS4E: And finally, my last question. Out of all the producers you’ve worked with and come across in your lifetime, who would you say is the most inspirational and the best producer you’ve ever seen in action?

I mean hands down, honestly, the most inspirational, most gifted and talented producer I have ever come across is DeVante. Unequivocally DeVante.

{Interview by: Rashmi Susannah Vasanthakumar, July 2009)

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